KOR: "TTT2 Needs to be Changed to 3/5 Tournament Standard"
AAK ON Friday, January 25, 2013 at 9:05PM 
Top US Tekken competitor KOR disrelishes one major aspect of his Tekken related travels: randomness. KOR wrote an article in facebook outlining his reasonings for his want for the change. He mentions that the riotous damage within the game defninitely leads to victories to the weaker player. You can read the full article and the link below.
Petition to Change the Tournament Standard on Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Why I feel Tekken Tag Tournament 2 should be changed to a 3/5 Tournament Standard, Just like UMVC3.
Just like every game out there, players put their heart into practicing, their money into traveling, and their time into becoming the best; as a competitive gamer there is nothing more than I would like is to see a return on the time I put into gaming.
That return is simple, winning. I can speak for the FGC when I say, it surely is disheartening to travel 5 miles to over 1000 miles, pay to enter a tournament and then lose in the most non-gratifying way as possible.
This change to a better format will yield more players to attend tournaments and events, the love for the game and the urge to compete and become the best is leveled fairly and not heavily favored in an unfavorable play style.
For those who may believe that is a plea or an excuse of top players for losing, you’re wrong. I’ve been to several TTT2 majors, gotten this opinion from novice to intermediate to top players, spoken to international players, and have studied the game in and out. This opinion is strong within our community, I have been playing for over 7 years and no Tekken in the past has needed this change until now.
I feel tournament organizers should implement 3/5 games as a tournament standard for TTT2. My reasons are the following:
- Tekken has always had smaller turnouts in numbers in comparison to that of UMVC3 and SF4 AE, and even other Capcom and Namco games. The 3/5 game standard would not run longer than any other 2D game [even when run at 2/3].
- Surely the rounds are 80 seconds, and could last a long time, but also can be found on the other end of the spectrum with matches running by so fast. The 3 games can be over with as little as 9 full combos and a mix-up.
- Combo damage is just too high in TTT2, as simple as a couple of hits and then one launch to Tag Assault and then wall combo can be the end of the round (without being able to even hit the tag button), and with more moves leading to a combo potential- Tekken players know this, and when it does happen, you know you never lost to the player, but to the game. This is not what it means to be competitive fighting pro gamer.
- The momentum of the game can shift so fast, away from you, just like UMVC3. it’s not about option selection like Street Fighter, there is not ONE clear cut answer to every situation, there are several. A player who plays without fear, calculation or knowledge is in a complete gamble of his win, it could work out for him or it could completely throw him into a loss; the other competitor is playing extremely cautious because of knowledge and calculation but falls to a launcher and loses a round, having to play catch up with the life. Tekken was never this risky, and even with two characters, the risk factor is weighted heavily on the player who plays without fear, knowledge and calculation.
- Tekken is a game of calculation, adaptation, sometimes taking necessary risk without much reward, and taking unnecessary risk for much reward. Some call it the chess of fighting games. I think a game with such an element of intellect should be played at a set which displays the finer talent of the competitors rather than who can find openings for a launch.
- We want the scene to grow and 2/3 game format is killing off our established players, which in turn, is slowly diminishing the amount of new players to step in the scene. Established players know how to play, and when they lose in such a manor, their morale to continue on falls strongly. We need our players to feel they were not cheated out of a win.
- Tournament organizers should want a 3/5 tournament format for Tekken. You have better matches, more rewarded victories, you have players coming back for a taste of vengeance rather than players who feel that the state of the game is not worth their time.
I honestly feel just like how tournaments like Major League Gaming, Kumite in Tennessee [KIT] who have implemented a 3/5 tournament standard for Tekken Tag 2, more tournaments would be worth attending. It is a law of statistics though that smaller sets will be more random.
We can pay to travel and join with the peace of mind that we will lose because we didn’t adapt in time, not because we lost to the game system, and walk away with knowing why I lost, and how to come back stronger.
Let’s try to keep the scene alive, get more players to attend and play a fair game. Let’s make our tournaments more exciting where the strongest players will make it to the end and the perpetual valor to continue traveling and become the best in this competitive game a force.
Thanks,
KOR and the Tekken Community
Reader Comments (90)
just curious what the koreans run their tourneys at.
In short , this game falls under its own weight.Tekken was complicated enough as it was in Tekken 6, this game introduces extra mechanics that go beyond calculation and straight into randomness.I can understand the appreciation for the fun factor of the game but I fully understand that its a living hell for those who are serious about it. There are many , many reasons for randomness in TTT2 not just damage. I myself hate playing that game and I quit it.
tekken fool, i agree with ur opinion. but, i still enjoy it.
Its true, dmg scaling and general randomness is off the charts, in his TTT2U is enough to learn couple of Juggles and you can be "good" in game, and this is compl true "the risk factor is weighted heavily on the player who plays without fear, knowledge and calculation" game is super fun, fast and flashy, but i still miSs ol' tekken ground game.
Holy crap! I have always admired KOR and he is one of my favorite Tekken players!
These are my exact thoughts about TTT2 as well. I always felt that randomness and desperation (panic moves) gives too much reward in this game due to the huge damage combos can do.
I think we can start a bit more slow and have 3/5 rounds per match maybe and still have ft2 (or best of 3). Thats will also rule out random wins. But if the tournament standard would be 3/5 I would be very happy!
Go KOR, you have my support! Where do I sign up?
I'm honesty not sure yet if this is a valid opinion or simply 'veterans' not doing as well as they think they should in TT2 against the new, onlineplay, generation. When trying to understand why this happens they state 'randomness' thinking they should be do better based on old merits instead of putting in hard work. Meanwhile the new kids are racking up 3k games on XBL/PSN and learning what actually works in matches.
Look at Fab - after losing to dual cappos at SCR he stated on his twitter etc how bad Miguel was against Cappos as the excuse for not winning and needing to hit the lab and that he should just use dual bobs etc. Before that he talked about expecting to win the entire thing.
Uhm, no Fab - the reason you lost is cause you threw out a million non jailing mid-high strings which you got punished to fuck and back for. Mig df11 and Bob b22 all day, everyday. Something any good player could punish you for. Anybody who knows tekken even remotely can see this in the matches. If you don't, you suck at Tekken.
A pretty smart hobbit (you Aris) once said that results are all that matters. Now looking at said results, if the game was 'random', how come players have winstreaks of tournaments like they do? How many times in a row has incognito won WNF? Naps No Mercy Fridays? Didn't even Rip have a three (4?) streak winning WNF? In another game with (even more) high damage; How often does LA. Akira win VF tournaments at Super?
Damage isnt' always the most important thing and the comparison with Marvel I feel is false. In Marvel there are overheads/lows, crossups (where the person doing the mixup even himself doesn't know what side it will hit on!), commandgrabs which lead to death and the sort where you can't see hands, unblockables due to assists, team super doom/ammy and what not not to mention chipdamage (hello bullethell) and one hit kills. Comparing the two games - I guess cause Marvel managed to push for the 3/5 matches - is like apples and oranges. Before someone screams 'but but they have three characters!' it's simply not the same when you kill a character and do a 50/50 mixup on the incoming character two times to win the game. Stop comparing Tekken to marvel ffs.
Finally; what is the most important thing: That Tekken gets a good exposure at Evo and is entertaining on stream for casual players or that self-entitled vets like Kor feels he has a better shot at winning? The effects of the bob/law fest last time Tekken was on Evo were DISASTROUS for Tekken within the FGC and the priority should be that Tekken now becomes a good spectator sport for the long run of the game imo. Yes, increasing the amount of matches will always, regardless of game, decrease variance but sometimes it's just not worth making every match in a tournament a first to 10. If you want to really establish who is better in hindsight simply bring back the backstage MM's now when everything can be filmed easily and keep it off-stream.
P.s; Lol @Kor trying to bs that 3/5 wouldn't take hell of a lot longer time cause some rounds are short to tournament organizers. Lol @the classic comparison to chess that always pops up when discussing ANY fightinggame. Btw; Let me get this straight... That new players have a shot at winning... isn't good for new players motivation and it would be better if "established players" always won instead? Haha way to spin shit Kor. Lmao "such an element of intellect" everyone saw you herp derping trying to actually learn something new on cross assault. Maybe you just suck at adapting at new games? Just kidding Kor <3'd you in Zoolander.
/Reality (playing a bit of devils advocate here)
lKor I agree with you 100%. 3/5 is what the tournament standard should be. Dmg scaling and randomness is becoming a pain in the ass. Where can i sign this petition?
There also needs to be a patch, Combo dmg is way too high especialy on counter hit. I believe in players being rewarded for getting a counter hit but jesus christ the round is over shortly after. It happends to all of us im sure we can all agree on this. There are alot of cheap gimiky moves that need to be toned down in damage,Namo plz look at this.
What does 3/5 Tournament Standard mean?
@ Reality
What are your arguments besides 'oh, this is just veterans bitching about them not winning'..?
Everybody who plays TTT2 regularly agrees with the fact that the damage is way too high in TTT2. It's not difficult, nor is there much skill involved in doing a combo that does 130+ damange on a walled stage. The level of randomness and bullshitism has come to a new high with TTT2. A few hits and a launch usually means the round is over.
Having 3/5 matches will only lead to the better player winning and not the player with random luck/launch mentality. It is in everybody's interest that the standard format becomes like this in TTT2.
I can see that you personally don't like KOR, but this time he is actually right and the changes he suggests will only make things better in the Tekken community and TTT2 as a game!
Btw, I loved the Zoolander reference. I knew I'd seen that hair somewhere before..:D
And to Reality , I see you post here alot. I thought you were apart of the Soul calibur Community? Anyways........You talk about new kids racking up wins on xbl and psn? are you kidding me Online Tekken is not real Tekken reguardless of the netcode.And who are you to say Fab sucks? have you ever played in a tournament? Have you ever played Fab? Flame on........
I think one of Reality's most important points is about Tekken's exposure. Tekken already takes a long time, and with 3/5, unless the matches are REALLY GOOD, stream monsters are gonna be full rage mode any time its on air. And if people don't like watching it, its not coming back. I also agree that TTT2 is not nearly as random as Marvel or most popular 2D games. Those games are guess after guess the whole match. Tekken has very little of that if the players are knowledgeable.
DrBhup; My arguments are as follows broken down in a TL;DR version.
1) There are consistent tournament winners in regulars regardless of the high damage (wnf, nm fridays). How can regular tournament winners exist in a game that is random to this degree?
2) When any new game comes out and the 'veterans' don't perform to their liking their is a reaction. The reaction is that the game is flawed. This is a mantra that is on repeat. It is simply to soon to make broad assumptions after half a year with this game - there are more new elements to it than people first believed and nuances. Put in the work. The winners will be those who put in the work (specially early on in a games lifespam).
3) Tournaments will take a hell of a lot more time. Anything else is bullshit. Even games now take longer time as it is. This can be very bad from a stream point of view making the game 'boring' and taking to long time. Comebacks are hype. Playing aggressive is hype. Doing a lot of damage isn't boring. Doing LITTLE damage and turtling is. You know what will happen when a pro player gets more matches against someone he doesn't know or a character he's not comfortable with? He will turtle the shit out of him trying to find tendencies before committing to anything. It's a tournament not a ft10 and there are different mindsets applying in these formats. He will keep all his setups for when they really matter (i.e, later in the finals or when he's playing someone better), maybe even play his secondary.
4) Yes making more matches to win evens out variation (EVERY game). But is that in the best interest of tekken right now? Should new players be prioritized or old men? If tekken is to live it's the former. As rain said "if best player always win why do we have tournaments - just give the prize to best player". That runitblack almost won SCR (and incognito won it) was probably the hypest thing there was even for the knowledgeable crowd. Before hand every pro was saying how Naps had this easy.
5) Before TT2 came out I remember Aris for instance talking about that there was a to big gap for people to get into tekken and that this would kill of the game. To many characters and you had to have played it for to long so it would probably go the route of VF. Now that new people start popping up and this gap clearly isn't as strong as people believed (for instance due to netcode) - there is a reaction towards it and people wishing it was this way?
At least wait with this change to after Evo and let tekken be at Evo once before committing to something like this imo. The game is new and 3 games can take forever. Otherwise I like DrBhups suggestion of 3/5 rounds and still FT2 more. Mind you this DE / FT3 / more matches in finals mindset is a pretty western way of thinking, probably stemming from people feeling 'cheated' from wins. Just enjoy the game and think longsighted more if you care about Tekken.
All in all if it really is the opinion of all the people playing Tekken in the US that these changes should happen I bow out and say go for it but test it on some smaller stage first than say MLG or EVO. It's your game after all and you're the guys playing it wtf.
Infamousminded you're not worth my time you always argue the same way (ad hominem) and frankly you're just offensive. I respect DrBhup, not you.
@Reality....I dont respect you either.Yo always have some negative shit to say yet you shouldnt even be talking. This is not 8 way run k. So with that said DrBhup pretty much hit the nail on the head. I respect KOR for being honest for the community. This is an issue that I hope will be addressed soon. If its for the best interest for the community then I support it. The damage is way to high in this game and 3/5 is how it should be. Dont change the standard that works.
Bro, do you even lift?
Tekken is boring to watch. Even FT2 puts me to sleep FT3 will put me in a coma. Seriously though KOR should just shut up about the whole thing because he'll be getting curb stomped by the Koreans anyway.
@Reality.....Bro....lol you probably weigh a buck 50. Im done with you. Are you kidding me lol, lets focus on the subject matter at hand, 3/5 is the tornament standard and has been since way back i the day. Why change what works?
3/5 is a bad bad bad goat bad idea. It would take too long to run a 3/5. 2/3 is long enough as it is. take SCR for example; it took over 2 hours just to finish top 8! imagine if every set was 3/5. If the games finish quickly, then why does it take so long to finish? most games that I've seen don't finish until 20 seconds or less is left. Also, randomness has because a word that people are throwing around because they don't understand a game and haven't put enough hours in to figure it out. If you are put into a situation that you didn't see coming, its not random. it's you being ignorant. This whole thing about the game being random all comes from people mistaking it for T6 instead of a new game.
This isnt UMVC3 where one hit leads to the MATCH. This is TTT2 where one bad hit leads to the ROUND in which there are a possible 5 ROUNDS in a MATCH. Aside from damage, this is not that "random." The real problem is the stupid fucking elephant in the room which no one really talks about too much- how bad tekken tag 2 is. The tag system is a pile of shit put on top of a already dying game. Where are the patches?!
i watch a lot of korean match vids and they don't seem to lose to "randomness," and they're the best in the world. i've seen them use invisible walls effectively. that's not random, that's knowing exactly where you're at on what stage at all times.