KOR: "TTT2 Needs to be Changed to 3/5 Tournament Standard"
AAK ON Friday, January 25, 2013 at 9:05PM 
Top US Tekken competitor KOR disrelishes one major aspect of his Tekken related travels: randomness. KOR wrote an article in facebook outlining his reasonings for his want for the change. He mentions that the riotous damage within the game defninitely leads to victories to the weaker player. You can read the full article and the link below.
Petition to Change the Tournament Standard on Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Why I feel Tekken Tag Tournament 2 should be changed to a 3/5 Tournament Standard, Just like UMVC3.
Just like every game out there, players put their heart into practicing, their money into traveling, and their time into becoming the best; as a competitive gamer there is nothing more than I would like is to see a return on the time I put into gaming.
That return is simple, winning. I can speak for the FGC when I say, it surely is disheartening to travel 5 miles to over 1000 miles, pay to enter a tournament and then lose in the most non-gratifying way as possible.
This change to a better format will yield more players to attend tournaments and events, the love for the game and the urge to compete and become the best is leveled fairly and not heavily favored in an unfavorable play style.
For those who may believe that is a plea or an excuse of top players for losing, you’re wrong. I’ve been to several TTT2 majors, gotten this opinion from novice to intermediate to top players, spoken to international players, and have studied the game in and out. This opinion is strong within our community, I have been playing for over 7 years and no Tekken in the past has needed this change until now.
I feel tournament organizers should implement 3/5 games as a tournament standard for TTT2. My reasons are the following:
- Tekken has always had smaller turnouts in numbers in comparison to that of UMVC3 and SF4 AE, and even other Capcom and Namco games. The 3/5 game standard would not run longer than any other 2D game [even when run at 2/3].
- Surely the rounds are 80 seconds, and could last a long time, but also can be found on the other end of the spectrum with matches running by so fast. The 3 games can be over with as little as 9 full combos and a mix-up.
- Combo damage is just too high in TTT2, as simple as a couple of hits and then one launch to Tag Assault and then wall combo can be the end of the round (without being able to even hit the tag button), and with more moves leading to a combo potential- Tekken players know this, and when it does happen, you know you never lost to the player, but to the game. This is not what it means to be competitive fighting pro gamer.
- The momentum of the game can shift so fast, away from you, just like UMVC3. it’s not about option selection like Street Fighter, there is not ONE clear cut answer to every situation, there are several. A player who plays without fear, calculation or knowledge is in a complete gamble of his win, it could work out for him or it could completely throw him into a loss; the other competitor is playing extremely cautious because of knowledge and calculation but falls to a launcher and loses a round, having to play catch up with the life. Tekken was never this risky, and even with two characters, the risk factor is weighted heavily on the player who plays without fear, knowledge and calculation.
- Tekken is a game of calculation, adaptation, sometimes taking necessary risk without much reward, and taking unnecessary risk for much reward. Some call it the chess of fighting games. I think a game with such an element of intellect should be played at a set which displays the finer talent of the competitors rather than who can find openings for a launch.
- We want the scene to grow and 2/3 game format is killing off our established players, which in turn, is slowly diminishing the amount of new players to step in the scene. Established players know how to play, and when they lose in such a manor, their morale to continue on falls strongly. We need our players to feel they were not cheated out of a win.
- Tournament organizers should want a 3/5 tournament format for Tekken. You have better matches, more rewarded victories, you have players coming back for a taste of vengeance rather than players who feel that the state of the game is not worth their time.
I honestly feel just like how tournaments like Major League Gaming, Kumite in Tennessee [KIT] who have implemented a 3/5 tournament standard for Tekken Tag 2, more tournaments would be worth attending. It is a law of statistics though that smaller sets will be more random.
We can pay to travel and join with the peace of mind that we will lose because we didn’t adapt in time, not because we lost to the game system, and walk away with knowing why I lost, and how to come back stronger.
Let’s try to keep the scene alive, get more players to attend and play a fair game. Let’s make our tournaments more exciting where the strongest players will make it to the end and the perpetual valor to continue traveling and become the best in this competitive game a force.
Thanks,
KOR and the Tekken Community
Reader Comments (90)
I am curious. Aris, do you sympathize with KOR? Why not have on a podcast? :)
look at ST. that is one of the most unforgiving fighting games of all time. it also set tourney standards and it ran 2/3 games AND at 2/3 rounds per game. high damage output and touch of death possibilities from just one mistake. not only did it set tourney standards, but probably the longest running tourney fighting game of all time.
the US hasn't had the tekken tag long enough, or has it even reached a high enough level to start changing tourney standard yet. the game is brutal and does not cater to the uninitiated.
in ST, one touch of death combo could kill you. in tag 2, you can conceivably touch of death the other player, but it relies on many more factors than it did in ST. axis, wall distance, wall type, floor type, assist type... give it at least until the end of the year.
I have pretty mixed feelings about this. Tekken is a very dynamic game, where matches can be extremely quick or slow. With the example of scr and high level Korean play, I'd say alot of the matches are actually pretty slow, which should be giving people hope. Being too aggressive or too turtley gets punished sooo hard in this game. I really think 2/3 is totally fine, but I'm not gonna say no to more tekken. I am however in .100% agreement that Namco should take a look at some moves to tone the damage down on
I really dont like this at all. I feel the game needs more time especially now since alot of new players are actually getting into tekken . Like reality said 2/3 is already long enough if it were 3/5 the game would be even longer especially if they are people turtling which is straight up boring to watch especially if people havent seen tekken before. I honestly think Kor is just out for himself and the older tekken vets as this would give them more time to adapt to one's playstyle but it would actually hurt the newer players which tekken desperately needs. Lets face it when a game starts to get newer players there would always be that "scrubby randomness" that happens but they arent going to win any tournaments with it. If you lost to that sort of thing its your fault in the first place not the games.
I seriously don't get this rant. Tekken Tag 2 is the LEAST RANDOM and has the LEAST DAMAGE out of the tekken's so far. Including Tekken DR.
In Tekken 6 most stages were small and movement was shitty. Mixups were much more strong since it was hard to negate them with good movement. Not the case now. Also, in Tekken 6 one combo to the wall > mixup > you're dead. In Tag 2, not only are the walls further away usually, you also have more life (and 2 characters), and if they want to do more damage they give you a safe way out of the wall with Tag Crash (usually not the best option though) and another character with full life.
Just for the record, I'm all for 3 matches to win. Just because tournament matches are fun and you get to play more. The game is fine. Lars is gay.
Although KOR brings up many great points, the biggest concern with this is time. If every set was 3/5, that'd mean every set could last as long as five matches. This would be the case if their are two really good players. However, if its a good player versus a novice, the novice player will be playing more matches than they have to. They wouldn't be able to adapt as fast as the good player, because they probably lack the fundamentals and haven't had the chance to work on their tech. In this day and age of streaming, its important how a game is received, by spectators. Tekken is one of those games that's enjoyable to people who understand what's going on. Uneducated viewers won't be able to appreciate simple things like proper "movement" . Realistically speaking, many tournaments would probably have an issue with this, unless its an exclusive Tekken Tournament.
Man us american's are spoiled, we get 3/5 and whatnot and with 2D fighters in Japan it's single elimination, and i'm sure it's the same over in Korean for tekken. I honestly think people are just bitching cause they're losing and can't adapt. I don't see the Koreans losing to randomness and whatnot. Friggin matches can be nail biting intense man.
Tekken wouldn't be what it is today without the "old vets" as you say. There is nothing wrong with change, and we all have our own opinions here. But, I honestly feel that from a history standpoint there is a reason why tournament matches are set to 3/5. Why change a formula that is a standard that works. I think that the "new breed" of Tekken players need to respect and understand that this series has been around since 1994. And should be honored to be part of a dedicated community. Tekken strives for longevity. Disrespecting a "vet" as you all say like Kor, is not the answer to this problem. Why not join together as one and fight to keep our game the way it should be. Enough if online scrubs mashing db 4s with Jun and Asuka all day. Enough already!
so by making it 3/5 vs 2/3 somehow it makes it better? what am I missing?
I play online, not by choice but I live in Kansas City so I don't necessarily have offline competition. Fuck how long it takes, if that is the the standard then stick with the standard. fuck streams. Tekken > SF anyday
some clarification is necessary. unless i'm wrong, kor doesn't want the 3/5 rounds per game changed in anyway. he wants the match to be set to 3/5 rather than the standard 2/3 format. in other words, you have to win 9 rounds to advance rather than 6 rounds to advance.
as for change, change does not always mean good. if tekken tag 2 allowed more frames to throw break and/or floated characters for easier combos as well as slowed down the game to make it easier to react to opponents, those would be bad changes.
i've been playing tekken since the first iteration and i still can't throw break. but i do not want that changed. it was bad enough they allowed for choosing just one character because people don't want to learn at least two characters to compete.
Yeah I think a few people are confused about what the issue is. This is about playing best of 5 matches. No one is arguing to change the round counts down to 2/3.
@Infamous I'm not sure if thats directed at me but just to clarify I did not disrespect any of the tekken vets or kor I know the work they have put in made the community what it is today but still it feels like kor and those who support him are thinking for themselves and not the community as a whole. I still stand by what I said though
Stop crying Kor.
@Concernedtkplayer, my comment was not directed towards you. It was towards Reality and his comments.. Honestly how is what Kor is saying wrong. It's fact not fiction. Just read the comments from Kor's petition. Even Just Frame James among many others are in favor of this. Larry "Shin Blanka" too. It's not about the individual, it's about our community as a whole. And Malice, Kor is not crying. He is simply doing his part by addressing an issue that needs to be changed. I know your over at 8 Way Run, and are part of the SC community. I don't know why you are here, but isn't 3/5 the tournament standard for SC as well? It's not about vets loosing or bc they can't adapt. That's disrespectful for those who feel that way. This is TEKKEN. Which has a long line of history and alot of you new generation dudes gotta learn your history.
I agree with Kor on his points, its just funny to me hearing a Bob player complain about damage and randomness... I guarantee if he was winning he wouldn't be complaining about the game at all...
Like someone said before, instead of making a petition for 3/5, there should be a petition to get this unbalanced game patched
Thank you Defx. Tournament organizers need to bring it back to the way it should be 3/5. And namco needs to issue out another patch to tone down the damg in this game. Other than that,I love this game and I personally just want it to shine. Im sure we all do.
I thinks this is something that Namco should change within the game itself - like increasing the lifebars, nerfing netsu dmg or even increase juggle scaling
Hey guys I played at KiT yesterday and here's my two cents:
Disclaimer: I am NOT a good player. I consider myself mediocre to intermediate. I got into Tekken in the dying days of T6.
Ok, for my first match I was paired with a guy that was at a similar skill level to me, as far as I could tell. After a round or two, I felt that I was better overall assuming I played my best. We went even, but he had some setups I did not expect and fell for several times. However, due to the 3/5 rule, I was able to adapt to his strategy and came off with the win. The set went the full 5 matches, all the way down the wire.
However, my next two matches were vs seasoned veterans of the game, and they ended as expected. 0-3 in their favor, pretty quickly. I took a couple rounds here and there, but there was no realistic way that I was going to take a match, considering the level gap.
Given my experience with 3/5, I like it. It allowed me to win a match in which I felt I was the better player, and I lost matches to players who were better than me. Seems fair enough.
I'm with Reality on this. Its a bad idea, for the overall health of the scene. TTT2 mechanics are designed for dirty setups, Its combos are designed to lead into tag crash setups or even crazy t.o.d. combos. That's what TTT2 is, its a brand new game. Embrace it.
To some degree I disagree with KOR. But I do think that it's a good a idea to at least put on test this 3/5 game format. What the real problem here is the game itself. IT favors too much for the experienced players and draws a little too much from the beginners. I know this problem has been tried to resolved before by adding the solo mode. What TTT2 is a refresh on the whole game mechanics. But not completely, keep the really good ones then change everything else.
For example:
1. Combos are way too long and can take more than half your damage. I think most of us can agree on this.
2. The gap between the vet and the beginners should be made smaller. What I mean is if there is a way for a beginner to play with an experienced player and can still kick some ass.
3. There are way too many characters! I mean, yeah the more the better but not in a this game in imo. Big roster meaning the bigger time you have to spend learning how to play against every single one of them if you wanna be good at this game.
4. The offline experience is poor. This is only if you play at home. If you are used to playing online then offline is boring. I find almost no reason to go offline other than use the practice. What only makes me play on the ghost battle is because I wanna get the trophies. I wish they could come up with some good game modes to play in offline.
5. Limited information. If you are so dedicated to this game then finding information for you won't be so hard. It won't hurt to put the frame data in game won't it? Other fighter games has it like VF5.
6. Characters almost always look the same throughout so many years. For this reason I envy SC5. Their characters at least show change. I mean Ling can't be a student forever. Can she? What I would like to see is a fresh take on every character when a new title is out.
That's all I can think about for now. Please tell me what you think about the issues I have addressed.