KOR: "TTT2 Needs to be Changed to 3/5 Tournament Standard"
AAK ON Friday, January 25, 2013 at 9:05PM 
Top US Tekken competitor KOR disrelishes one major aspect of his Tekken related travels: randomness. KOR wrote an article in facebook outlining his reasonings for his want for the change. He mentions that the riotous damage within the game defninitely leads to victories to the weaker player. You can read the full article and the link below.
Petition to Change the Tournament Standard on Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Why I feel Tekken Tag Tournament 2 should be changed to a 3/5 Tournament Standard, Just like UMVC3.
Just like every game out there, players put their heart into practicing, their money into traveling, and their time into becoming the best; as a competitive gamer there is nothing more than I would like is to see a return on the time I put into gaming.
That return is simple, winning. I can speak for the FGC when I say, it surely is disheartening to travel 5 miles to over 1000 miles, pay to enter a tournament and then lose in the most non-gratifying way as possible.
This change to a better format will yield more players to attend tournaments and events, the love for the game and the urge to compete and become the best is leveled fairly and not heavily favored in an unfavorable play style.
For those who may believe that is a plea or an excuse of top players for losing, you’re wrong. I’ve been to several TTT2 majors, gotten this opinion from novice to intermediate to top players, spoken to international players, and have studied the game in and out. This opinion is strong within our community, I have been playing for over 7 years and no Tekken in the past has needed this change until now.
I feel tournament organizers should implement 3/5 games as a tournament standard for TTT2. My reasons are the following:
- Tekken has always had smaller turnouts in numbers in comparison to that of UMVC3 and SF4 AE, and even other Capcom and Namco games. The 3/5 game standard would not run longer than any other 2D game [even when run at 2/3].
- Surely the rounds are 80 seconds, and could last a long time, but also can be found on the other end of the spectrum with matches running by so fast. The 3 games can be over with as little as 9 full combos and a mix-up.
- Combo damage is just too high in TTT2, as simple as a couple of hits and then one launch to Tag Assault and then wall combo can be the end of the round (without being able to even hit the tag button), and with more moves leading to a combo potential- Tekken players know this, and when it does happen, you know you never lost to the player, but to the game. This is not what it means to be competitive fighting pro gamer.
- The momentum of the game can shift so fast, away from you, just like UMVC3. it’s not about option selection like Street Fighter, there is not ONE clear cut answer to every situation, there are several. A player who plays without fear, calculation or knowledge is in a complete gamble of his win, it could work out for him or it could completely throw him into a loss; the other competitor is playing extremely cautious because of knowledge and calculation but falls to a launcher and loses a round, having to play catch up with the life. Tekken was never this risky, and even with two characters, the risk factor is weighted heavily on the player who plays without fear, knowledge and calculation.
- Tekken is a game of calculation, adaptation, sometimes taking necessary risk without much reward, and taking unnecessary risk for much reward. Some call it the chess of fighting games. I think a game with such an element of intellect should be played at a set which displays the finer talent of the competitors rather than who can find openings for a launch.
- We want the scene to grow and 2/3 game format is killing off our established players, which in turn, is slowly diminishing the amount of new players to step in the scene. Established players know how to play, and when they lose in such a manor, their morale to continue on falls strongly. We need our players to feel they were not cheated out of a win.
- Tournament organizers should want a 3/5 tournament format for Tekken. You have better matches, more rewarded victories, you have players coming back for a taste of vengeance rather than players who feel that the state of the game is not worth their time.
I honestly feel just like how tournaments like Major League Gaming, Kumite in Tennessee [KIT] who have implemented a 3/5 tournament standard for Tekken Tag 2, more tournaments would be worth attending. It is a law of statistics though that smaller sets will be more random.
We can pay to travel and join with the peace of mind that we will lose because we didn’t adapt in time, not because we lost to the game system, and walk away with knowing why I lost, and how to come back stronger.
Let’s try to keep the scene alive, get more players to attend and play a fair game. Let’s make our tournaments more exciting where the strongest players will make it to the end and the perpetual valor to continue traveling and become the best in this competitive game a force.
Thanks,
KOR and the Tekken Community
Reader Comments (90)
I agree completely with Reality and KOR just needs to stop being a bitch. That said I do agree the damage in this game is off the charts and they should do something about it.
@Devil Kazuya......your exactly what this community doesnt need. Ignorant. Its easy to be closeminded and not accept the way the tournament standard should be.Join the Reality bandwagon. There is areason why it was always 3/5. The question is why did we get off course? the damage is outrageous in this game and there needs to be a patch. Anyone can see that this needs to be adddressed. Point blank period. Calling Kor a bitch is not the answer here.
After watching Ultimate Tekken Tournament XIV , I can see this being a cool idea. For 3/5 to work at tournaments, there would probably need be more setups than usual. This would be to benefit the TOs by finishing the tourney at a reasonable time. Also, Tekken should have its own stream to avoid conflict with other games.
damage is fine. go eat two CH tile splitters in tekken 2.
what this game needs are "one-button" combos. the discrepancy from the beginners to top-level play is just too much. this day and age (especially here in america), people just don't have the time to practice the game for 6+ hours a day. we need that time to generate memes that look like they were drawn by orangutans and come up with really hip catch phrases to put on them.
nevermind that the koreans practice that much to be the best in the world. this ain't the nba or nfl. we're not getting paid to dedicate this much time to video games, much less just one game. one-button high damage combos is the only for a game like tekken to survive.
the game is too hard for people who don't want to practice.
3/5 is the standard past group stages in pretty much all major tekken tournaments in europe :).
And Knee is destroying absolutley everyone in korea ATM, tekken has never had such a dominant player. Thats as far from random as you can get ^^.
I think the main issue with "damage too high" in TTT2 is the walls. I mean the combo damage actually feels a lot more "normal" without walls. I don't know if this has been done before, or even if it's actually a good idea but I think it might be worth just playing on infinite stages only. Whaddaya think ppl?
The reason tekken has less competition and players is that its too hard and too big of a clusterfuck. Randomness is not the reason.
Tekken gets more complicated and harder with each game and it already has been the hardest of fighting games out there.
Make this game more accessible. As long as the gameplay stays like it is right now, no format will change its popularity.
Take an ScV kind of approach with the next tekken. That game was accessible and easy to understand, but still hard to master. Inb4 lei has 300 moves in Tekken 7.
Blanket 3/5 will certainly hurt Tekken in the FGC overall. First, non-Tekken players can't appreciate the high level technical aspects of the game, so the 3/5 format will bore them-- which will directly diminish viewership and casuals' interest in the game.
Second,beyond boredom and apathy, the increased time costs it would incur to support 3/5 would also increase resentment against Tekken more broadly. Casuals and non-Tekken players will see it as a waste of the time that could be spent covering the games they actually care about. Both of these factors impair the growth of the scene, and does little to attract the attention and resources of sponsors necessary to really put a game on the map.
Third, Evo is going to be 2/3 until SFs and GFs. Why condition the community to conflicting competitive standards? At best, this will cast doubt on tournament results. So the choice basically boils down to accepting a higher level of inherent volatility in the game, and adapting accordingly in order to advance the state of the community as a whole. Or if you're ok with Tekken continuing to be an afterthought game falling in distantly behind AE/MVC3, then by all means cater to biased egos with 3/5-- but understand the larger costs this approach carries.
Completely agree with Reality, Devil Kazuya and krknight on the thinly veiled self-interest with which the original "article" (more like poorly-strung together series of logical fallacies) seethes.
"Let’s make our tournaments more exciting where the strongest players will make it to the end and the PERPETUAL VALOR to continue traveling and become the best in this competitive game a force."
What the hell is this guy trying to say? Fucking zoolander up in here trying to write. Kor needs to go back to licking assholes and putting on mascara rather than bitching about Tekken.
3/5 very necessary. I'm tired of the new generation of players poisoning our game today. Just really think about it people. Screw the Reality, Devil Kazuya, KrKnight,Defcon bandwagon. 2/3 totally kills our game. Is that what you people want? KrKnight you say this game needs 1 button combos!? Are you kidding me. And some other guy said that theTekken series should take the SCVI approach?! If we do that then the Tekken community is doomed. SC has nothing to do with Tekken. As a matter of fact SC has not been on point since SC 2, but that's another discussion. And I respect SC and hope it comes back on top with Tekken. 3/5 was always the tournament standard for a reason. If tournament organizers change it. Random bullshit will continue to happen.
A lot of players need to retire and let go of this expensive hobby. Players like KOR need to get a real job that pays real money instead of his part-time job he has where he can take time off whenever he wants to fly to some major tournament. He needs treat Tekken like a God-damn hobby instead of some fucking zen martial art. It's really sad to hear when other players like
Tekken will never get to a place where players like knee or JDCR can travel the world sponsored by MCZ and make anywhere near 100k like infiltration does with his street fighter tournaments winnings. KOR, if you are reading this, you need to pack your shit move to playing capcom games or get out. Yes, you've had a good run winning tournaments and taking EVO at a game that nobody in the US really plays but the dream is over now. You can win every tournament and even take EVO this year and you won't even break even.
I dont know why people keep bashing Kor? Hes simply addressing a problem that needs to be fixed 3/5 is very necessary. And this game needs to be patched. People are still doing sandwitch combos and the damage is rediculously high especially on counter hit.
I think Kor needs a sponsor he's a great competitor. Veteran players need to play online learn the new gimmicks.
Tournament standards are fine just space out the gimmicks.
My opinion Namco needs to change the tag incoming similar to Tag 1. Your point character gets tag assault combo-ed and secondary character gets raged. Trying to raw tag in to keep rage of the secondary character is too difficult. You have to risk launching the opponent with your low life point character or knock down. The come back factor is not a factor if you are getting punished to try to use it....
There you go Namco Rage visual super meter that can be activated. Sort of like K groove CvsS2
Ok its to late for TTT2 but for Tekken 7 Rage Super Meter take note Namco.
@ old Tekken vet
FYI KOR is an industrial engineer & a part time model. So yeah, I consider that a real job.
the game is fine as it is. it doesn't need any sort of damage reduction.
you watch korean match vids and they are always aware of their surroundings. they know where the walls are most of the time and use a multitude of ways to push their opponents to them. you don't see the same combos (unless it's in an open area) used often because the distance is always different. this takes a vast amount of character knowledge and creativity to execute. i've actually seen a steve player pause a combo because of a foreground wall (an invisible wall), then continue his combo.
if the tourney standard is 2/3 in korea, then 2/3 it should remain. they are the best in the world and everyone should model their tourneys accordingly. 6 rounds is plenty to figure out your opponent, especially since people should know the strengths and weaknesses of their opponents' characters prior to tourney time. nobody loses 6 rounds to "randomness." if however, everyone does agree to a 3/5, then so be it. it's not a big deal.
tourney standard is not important. but trying to fudge the damage output in this game is. this game rewards those who are willing to spend the most time in learning its mechanics. you can't just learn 3 or 4 combos and then play at the highest level.
every attack combination is like a link in a larger chain. how those links are chained together will maximize damage output. if a player knows how far each link will push his/her opponent, then that player will be able to link together the most damaging combo. by the way, they would also have to do so on the fly. this then makes tekken tag 2 the most creative tekken up to date.
every tekken prior, you see a lot of the same combos at the highest levels because those were the most damaging, which made spectating a chore for many, myself excluded. i can watch high level tekken matches all day. in ttt2, the most damaging can be a multitude of variations. there is nothing like watching a match in which one player is dominating, and then suddenly lose to a single combo due to the fact that his/her opponent had the skills and knowledge to use every tool available to him/her to win the round. there is no way that a weaker opponent could pull something like this off with some "randomness."
it's way too early for anyone stateside to start calling for damage reduction or patches.
@old tekken vet
who are you to judge what someone else does with their life? is KOR hurting anyone?
you know what's sad is that you have the time to sit around and judge someone else who isn't doing anything as a detriment to you or anyone else in society, on a comment board no less. live and let live, is that so hard?
I can't understand why this is coming up now. The damage in BR was way worse, and that is a mathematical fact.
Reality I agree with alot of your arguments.. I believe 3/5 would be a little bit long, even though it would help on the better players having longer time to adjust to the game/new player. I don't believe there is so much randomness in the game as people are saying, but the damage is a little bit too high, that's what causes the pros say the game is random, because players that aren't that good can still win because of redicolous combo damage/raged poke damage. There are several ways of coming back, which I personally think they should tone down. But Harada stated that he wanted shorter matches. The entertainment value of players being able to make a comeback easily has increased, commentators constantly go "ohhhh! OHHHH!" which makes it more interesting to watch, no doubt about it. But to sum up
* 3/5 might be too long, shorter time to adjust with 2/3
* Damage too high, makes it alot easier for comebacks, which I believe is the reason players say it is random
* Entertainment value is higher, but makes the pro's having to work alot harder for their victories.
LOL wtf? You want 3/5? Do you know how long that would take? It would take fucking centuries. Just leave everything the way it is, though I believe the health bar percentage should be increased a bit and rage damage should be toned down a bit.