Monday
Jan162012
TTT2 EWGF Stream Archive on Youtube
BY 
Aris ON Monday, January 16, 2012 at 9:22AM
Aris ON Monday, January 16, 2012 at 9:22AM 
Thanks to a lot of help from tieTYT, we finally got last weeks EWGF stream uploaded to our Youtube channel. Part 1 is ready to watch and part 2 should be ready later today. Please subscribe and thanks for the support.
Update: For some reason the videos are still processing on Youtube which is causing them to not play in embedded windows. Here is a direct link.
Reader Comments (25)
Thank you for doing this. So many great moments.
Video is unavailable?
Video Unavailable. :/
All the best,
RAZER
heres the direct link that seems to work better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpLHS3kSzg8
Doesn't work at all...
About the whole no new players thing. You discussed why nobody new will join and u discussed why rarely anyone oldschool that left will come back, but u havent really mentioned how youd personally change that.
Personally I think to achieve that, namco would have to make a huge step away from their core playerbase. There is no other way. Theyd have to simplify tekken. Easy as that. Everyone oldschool and their mums would hate it, but its necessary. Ive started with tekken 5 and it took me pretty much up to now to be able to do basic movement, i.e. bdc etc. Ive not been playing hardcore, but thats the point.
Youre not gonna get new players if they are forced to practice ONE part of the game for MONTHS before even remotely getting a sense of achievement.
What most popular games have in common is that they are easy to learn, but hard to master. Tekken is really hard to learn and impossible to master. I enjoy the latter because I personally love it when theres so much room for improving yourself, but i think its ridiculous that you HAVE to put half a year of practice and research into this game before even remotely getting anything done.
The other thing is visuals. Esports games gotta be attractive for the eye. I LOVE watching tekken because I understand whats going on. But any casual watching T6 is getting bored to death cuz there aint much happening.
I believe thats partitially fixed with Tag 2 though. The tag comboes and all that crazy shit people can do should be enough to make a crowd go "AHHH". If theyd just understand what they just saw...
Personally, Id change the movement in tekken. It should stay important, but it should be applicable for everyone picking up the game. Maybe drastically change dashes so beginners can make use of them without being forced to learn how to cancel them and so on.
But yeah, I hope namco realises with tag2s release that they need to change their direction of where they wanna take this game. I mean tekken can only be a competetive game as a fighting game, there is no way around it. And for it to be a good competetive game, there has to be competition. Which would start happening if the game wasnt impossible to pick up for new players
Especially because theres new titels every other month. People dont wanna spend half a year getting into them, by that time a new hyped release is already going to be out.
Another huge thing would be the netcode though. I know Aris is gna hate it, but online play is the future. Or more like, for every other game it already is the standard way of playing it. Aris wants us to stick around arcades or offline, but what he doesnt seem to realise is, that the online community potentially has infinitely more players than the offline one. If the game was better online than it currently is, obviously.
So if the online community of tekken doubles due to a better netcode, the amount of online tourneys is going to increase aswell and as players get more familar with the game, they are bound to visit an arcade or offline tourney at some point.
Which increases pricepools which also automatically draws in more players from everywhere and so on.
Thats my 50 cents on that topic. Whadya think?
I agree with Biorr that Tekken has to be simplified. In my opinion, Tekken has grown way too complex for new players. Over time, new moves have been added, and new features like the bind system. So okay, Tekken 6, you only have to mind one character to play decently, but you have to take into account off axis stuff (which mattered less in previous Tekken titles, IMO), spacing and the character's movement, punishing, his/her stances and their cancels/transitions, from what distance you can hit the wall and in what way to continue a combo, possibly frame data, and whatelse. Enter TTT2, you need to learn another character (which you could've learned all the while T6 and BR was out) and sync him/her with your main.
Point is, the complexity has increased greatly, they may as well end the series here. Any addition to the system will only increase its complexity, and less and less people will play the game because there's not enough new people coming in to learn the game, and the people who liked the game get bored with it. If you haven't played the recent versions of Tekken, you will probably be surprised how complex this game came to be and how players can keep in mind all these things.
To simplify this game to appeal to new players, maybe they can introduce (or reintroduce) two new characters with very basic play (a conservative (lots of basic strings and mixups, simple punishers, pokes and launchers, a stance or two but nothing too fancy), not necessarily short movelist) when partnered with each other. From there new players can learn the "areas of play" like blocking, punishing, spacing, poking, stances, mixups, combos (along with wall and bind) and tag stuff. Well, they could pick up a character in T6 and learn to do just some of that.
What I think would be good for Tekken is to introduce changes that creates a different "area of play". What do I mean by "area/s of play". It can mean different focuses or aspects of a game. For Tekken, an "area of play" would pokes, combos, reversals, the wall system, the bind system, among others. They are ambiguous yes, because Tekken is not so like a strategy game with definite aspects, from which I derived this idea (Think starcraft, which has harrassing, rushing, early-mid-late game, macro and micro, etc. which are much more definite).
Right now, introducing the tag system improves greatly the areas of play that do damage (combos, including wall and bind system), but not so much the defensive areas like blocking and parries. So why not introduce tag parries/reversals? It does increase the complexity, but they can make it simple by making use of the generic reversals of characters, in addition to character-specific parries/reversals. Say a character's b+1+3 or b+2+4 usually just does damage, but when the tag button is pressed with it or immediately after (~5), he switches out without dealing damage and both players are on +-0 frame advantage and possibly at a safe distance from each other. I'm not sure if it'd be a great feature, or it'd fvck up the game, but I think some areas of the game need to be expanded other than those that contribute in great part to damage. Otherwise, they will have result to adjusting the damage scaling and the life bar, maybe even remove the bind system or possibly add some meter-based gameplay into Tekken. LOL
In sf vs tekken they now have those gems that can make the input and cancels easier, with a penatly attached to them. Idk how it will play out though. I could imagine that if someone gets used to those features, hes not going to learn anything and get bad habits.
But yeah, tekken needs a major overhaul when it comes to entering the game as a new player. Huge single player tutorials would help, as would a better practice mode in general. A tutorial should explain all those basics about frames and such, so a new player actually understands why what happens.
Thats not enough though. Inputting shit in tekken is way too hard for new players too.
I mean when I first attempted to get better in tekken, I was checking TZ for some basic info. I found out that I need to know the frame data of HUNDREDS of moves, be able to punish, duck, sidestep and sidewalk all of those correctly.
I need to learn how to break throws which still fails for me at times. I need to learn how to do comboes. I need to learn how to do the different kinds of dashes and practice those for MONTHS to be able to do them correctly without actually getting myself a disadvantage. Then theres character specific stuff like stances and mishima wavedash, backsway and so on. General input is hard as fuck. A beginner will see all those fancy ewgf comboes in the command list and will never be able to actually do them without months of frustrating, non-rewarding practice.
In short: I was blown away, I didnt know where to start and I could easily imagine beginners already giving up tekken at this point.
But take a look at SF4. Many of my friends play it cuz its so simple. You dont have crazy inputs that are hard as fuck to do AND essential at the same time. If you cant justframe block a super then thats okay, its not gamebreaking. Kinda like you dont need to be able to do taunt-jetuppers all the time with bryan, he can win without it. But imagine kaz without ewgf and wavedash. Not really scary tbh.
Basically, what one of the better SF players i know says is that SF is all about mindgames and prediction. Without caring about anything else. You can learn inputs and timing while playing, you dont have to dedicate half a year just to get the movement down or practice a month just to do a staple combo. In SF u can actually learn that by playing without worrying about all that other shit.
Tekken needs to be like that too. I need to be able to start playing the game and manage to do the basics without practice-grinding those beforehand so I can steadily get deeper into it. Whereas right now, it just presents you a huge wall of frustration that takes month to crack so you finally feel like u can play it a little bit.
The only thing Tekken NEEDS is record function in practice mode, and possibly some increased damage scaling during TA .....Thats it!!! I personally love that there is a fighting game where higher level play costs more than the goddamn monetary price of the fucking game. You mad b/c you can't wd, bdc, dc, iwr, or iws practice more! Don't want to practice, then accept that your a casual player. No fighting game needs to cater to this attitude, no sports do. You can't bat well when you first pick up the bat, you can't run well your first time in football (either kind), what about dribbling and shooting in basketball? And what if those new baseball players expected to bat like Barry Bonds after buying his bat? That would be ridiculous, right?!?! You would tell that person to practice right? And that's what I'm telling you .....practice. -_- Either that or quit crying.
ill never practice and keep crying
Vids still not working for me either
By the way for those of you that are curious this is X22:
http://www.youtube.com/martino007
Shout outs to the stream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-MtO5YNEkc (20 views)
Hey Martin. Recently it was traced that French toast actually has latin and german origins with recipies dating to the 4th or 5th century. If you could have anything on a french toast, what would it be and why? Do you ilke germany?
<33333 X22
@snowboots: Youre missing the point. Even with making tekken easier you dont off the bat play like a pro.
If it was like that, anyone could pick up SF4 and be pro right away, but thats not the case.
But what is the case in SF4 is that the entry in the game is much easier and youll actually start accomplishing things waaay faster. The latter keeps up the motivation to keep going and practice more, and maybe some day end up being good enough to play competetively.
In SF4 after like 100-200 matches youll start to understand the basics way better, maybe get your first wins that didnt feel like random ones and so on. That feeling of accomplishing something keeps you going, so you eventually end up being a regular.
In Tekken on the other hand, even after thousands of games played, youll still struggle to do the basics. Its not motivating, its frustrating for newer players. This is the reason why the tekken community stays a small elite group of players.
And thats not a good thing. Less players means less competition, less competition means less sponsors, media and tournaments which might ultimately lead to less Tekken games because at some point, they might not be worth being made anymore, revenue wise. Do you want that?
I've found people to play Tekken w/ since Tekken 2. It's okay to be a casual player Biorr. There are casual players of every game. Even though I played SF competitively back in my teens and shit, now I play SF4 casually and that's ok. Not every fighting game should be like every other fighting game. This is why the 2d scene seems so boring to me. They are all horse-shit basic mechanic games that end up being about match-ups and not player skill. Most of them are poorly balanced as well, even after several patches (looking at you MK) and after a lot of money (looking at you SF, MvC) . It's okay to be casual w/ Tekken even if no one else thinks so. But, the number one fighting game in Asia should not change a fucking thing. And guess what I've played thousands of matches. I got the mechanics great, I had a good feel for mechanics of the game way before one thousand matches. If I fuck up a dc or a bdc it's not b/c "the game's movement system is toooooo hard" it's b/c I fucked up. I should practice on my execution.
Hey after mulling your comments over, i think I've found the fighting game for you. Whenever I've played it I feel as accomplished as I do with SF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEwsMBDu1PA
Tekken isnt the most played fighting game in asia, the SF series is pld much more over there, just like it is in the eu or in the us.
Everyone I know plays it, literally. You still dont get it though. There are no casual players for tekken as the game doesnt allow it. You either spend months to get into it or dont even bother. Fact is, the latter case happens more often than not which is the reason why the tekken community is so small.
Face the facts. Tekken lacks a playerbase. It simply doesnt have enough competition to be interesting for the huge tournaments. Tekken isnt even in Evo anymore, do you know how big that is?
Its cool that youre fine with the game and how hard it is, so am I, but you know, I want there to be a Tekken 7 and 8 and at this rate, this might not be happening, who knows?
Tekken is easily the most played arcade game in Asia. Check arcadia magazine's rankings. Here's the first result from a google search: http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/2/8/arcadia-magazine-top-10-rankings.html . It remained like that for a while.
#1 fighting game in Asia not going away anytime soon Biorr, if it was poppa Namco wouldn't have already put up the funds for TxSF. Tekken is not at Evo b/c it's nearly 4 years old. Sf and Capcom crew are still there b/c there is always a new version of the same game coming out every other 9 months. If vanilla SF4 were still relevant ...then I'm sure it wouldn't be there either buddy. If you indeed like Tekken try asking for help, or discussing things about the game as it is. That is all.
Its NOT the #1 fighting game. Ur link is from 2010. Its 2012 now and T6 hasnt been #1 since the beginning of 2011, so that much for that. You would have known if you used google properly, cuz since march 2011 Tekken 6 has never been on the topspot again in asia. And only been dropping since.
I AM discussing the game. Have you actually fkin watched the screen and what Aris has been talking about? Hes a die-hard tekken fan yet easily sees how this game fails to attract new players. Dont pull out aged statistics that dont contribute jack to that matter.